'Putin told me he did not want Ukraine to exist' - Former EU Commission chief, José Manuel Barroso

Former President of the European Commission José Manuel Barroso said Putin once described Ukraine as an ‘artificial country created by the CIA and by the European Commission’.

In an exclusive interview for Euronews, Barroso who was president from 2004 – 2014 said Putin told him that ‘his goal was to stop Ukraine from becoming a fully independent state. During his tenure he met with Putin twenty-five times according to his official records.

He said Putin’s intention was for Ukraine to stay within the Kremlin’s orbit as a satellite state similar to Belarus.

“I know because I spoke with him about this”, he said.

“He does not want Ukraine to exist or if it exists, to be a kind of Belarus without any independence in foreign policy or in defense terms can be a vassal state. This is his goal”, he said.

“Putin is the leader outside European that I met the most during my ten years in office. I met him 25 times. I know what he feels. I know”.

“Putin does not want to come to the Russian people and say, okay, we have gained some more territory, a little bit of Donbass, a little bit of Crimea now. The goal of Putin was to avoid Ukraine to be a country. I know because I spoke with him about this”, he said.

Putin’s first incursion into Crimea and Georgia as well as Kremlin-related assassinations of journalist Anna Politkovskaya and former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko took place during Barroso’s tenure.

He said his recollections of the time was that European countries saw the invasion and annexation of Crimea as a ‘special case’.

And believes that Crimea won’t ever return to Ukrainian control as part of any future negotiations to end the war.

“In the back of our minds or the minds of the European governments was that Crimea is a special case. That's why today, honestly, nobody believes that Ukraine is going to get back Crimea. That's the reality”, he said.

 He said despite the stark warnings of Putin’s intentions, EU member states were reticent about imposing strong sanctions due to domestic economic concerns.

‘The problem was which kind of sanctions because then they could not agree and they asked the commission to design the sanctions’.

‘And then, of course, each country wanted special dispensations for farming, energy, banking’.

'Others diamonds', he said.

"I don't think at that moment it was possible to conceive a much stronger position because, in fact, the governments were not ready for it".

However, he's firmly in support of Europe doing everything possible to ensure Ukraine is victorious and Russia is defeated, regardless of any potential change in policy in the US.

"Whatever happens with our American friends, we should support Ukraine because if not, it's not only going to be a tragedy for Ukraine. It's a very important country, but a tragedy for Europe.

And it's going to be the best possible offer we give to the movements against democracy, against international law, against also our own values."